In this episode, Kyle shares his recent trip to Mexico where he and his team built a home for a family. He highlights the efficiency of the home building process and the special experience of taking his son with him. The podcast hosts discuss their partnership with I-68 in Mexico and the importance of sharing the gospel. They then dive into the book of Acts, focusing on Paul's approach in Athens and his message about Yahweh being everyone's God. They explore the contrast between the one true God and other gods, emphasizing God's sovereignty and providence. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the relationship between God and humanity and the greatness of God's creativity. In this conversation, Kyle and David discuss the importance of contextualization in missions and the debate surrounding it. They also explore the concept of God as judge and the call to repentance. The significance of the resurrection and the cross is examined, along with the question of why God chose this method of salvation. The different responses to Paul's message are also highlighted.
In this episode, Kyle shares his recent trip to Mexico where he and his team built a home for a family. He highlights the efficiency of the home building process and the special experience of taking his son with him. The podcast hosts discuss their partnership with I-68 in Mexico and the importance of sharing the gospel. They then dive into the book of Acts, focusing on Paul's approach in Athens and his message about Yahweh being everyone's God. They explore the contrast between the one true God and other gods, emphasizing God's sovereignty and providence. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the relationship between God and humanity and the greatness of God's creativity. In this conversation, Kyle and David discuss the importance of contextualization in missions and the debate surrounding it. They also explore the concept of God as judge and the call to repentance. The significance of the resurrection and the cross is examined, along with the question of why God chose this method of salvation. The different responses to Paul's message are also highlighted.
Welcome to the Be Disciples podcast with yours, kyle Morris, dakota Smith and David Glavin. This is episode number 112. Please share this podcast. Follow us on social media, whether that's Facebook or Instagram. You can follow our church at Ottawa Bible Church on YouTube at Ottawa Bible Church. I'll have those posted here Subscribe, share, like whatever. We just want people to hear the gospel. We want people to be equipped in God's Word. That's why we have this podcast. So welcome to the podcast guys. What's going on? It's good to be home. Yeah, you were in Mexico or on a nine day trip that included time in Mexico. Tell us a little bit about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have been taking our church down to Mexico for the last three years now, and this is the longest one that we made in attempt that. So we took two and a half days of travel there, two and a half days of travel back and about five days in between almost five days in between and we built a home for a family in Mexico. The father was 21 years old, the mom was 24. And they had three kids together. And the father grew up in the Chandler Gilbert area for all his life, but his wife is a citizen in Mexico, so she's unable to come over. So I was literally speaking with someone who I could have crossed paths with at any given point in time when we lived there. Yeah, he went to Perry High School, okay, yeah, but also spoke perfectly English perfect Spanish, of course.
Speaker 2:And yeah, it was really cool because we got to dedicate this home that our whole team built to this family and I got to share the gospel with this young man who was from my same neighborhood, and that was a really touching moment. So we built a three bedroom home in about three days. Our team put up the home faster than any team I've ever been a part of. I've been on these trips with I6A in Mexico eight times for a house build, four times for other occasions. This was by far, by far the fastest that we have ever put up a home and it helps to have a bunch of Kansas boys who know what they're doing and who built homes, I mean we were like literally a whole day ahead of schedule and they're like you're a small team, comparatively speaking, and you're way ahead.
Speaker 2:So it's actually pretty impressive.
Speaker 1:Like guys, we came to work, we're not messing around.
Speaker 2:We came to work. We're from Kansas, we don't? We don't fool around here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nice, and you got to take your son.
Speaker 2:I did. That was probably the biggest highlight for me is it's kind of like a coming of age thing for our family. It's a family tradition when you reach, you know, six years old, you can go on your first mission trip. And so I brought Jojo and he was at my hip the whole time. I mean there were very few moments where he wasn't with me. So we traveled together, colored together in the car, I read him the Bible, stayed together in the cabins, stayed together in the tents, went on a hike with him, shoveled dirt with him, did stucco with him. I mean every, every moment it was with my son. That was really special.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome. We it's been great to partner with I six eight for the last few years in multiple different ways. The the trip in January we went on was with Scott from I six eight and we've also gone up there, which we will again this year in September, to train pastors in that same area. And so our churches continue to invest in that area of Mexico, equipping, helping out with physical needs as well. But really the heart of that ministry is getting the gospel out, reaching the lost. And we know that because we know Scott and sometime we'll have to have him on the podcast because he'll just be able to share his heart, not just that people get a house built, but that people hear the gospel, know the word and then continue to disciple others. So just what we're doing here, so we have a very similar heartbeat and what we're supposed to be doing as Christians absolutely, david. How was it a week without Dakota? It's probably the best week we've ever had. I think it was stress free for him.
Speaker 3:No comment.
Speaker 1:This is recorded. No comment. I love my pastor.
Speaker 2:Brownie points I missed.
Speaker 3:Dakota man. I hugged him big yesterday. It wasn't fake either.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm grateful to know you don't fake, hug me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was. It was a good. Honestly, it's nice to have a team. Yeah, because if any of us are gone, we can. We can help each other out and keep going.
Speaker 1:It doesn't usually nothing really too much, too many hiccups or anything like that. So, yeah, last week was good. So, let's, let's pray and we're going to continue. In the book of Acts, we've been in chapter 17. And now Paul is on the verge of having really a kind of a debate, a teaching moment, and so he has been in Athens. He's kind of been in rubbing shoulders with the philosophers of the day, the thinkers of the day, having these discussions about is there a God? Who is this God? And so Paul is going to get into that today.
Speaker 1:So let's pray and we're going to study the word. Let's go, father, what a wonderful day it is to just come together in your word any day that we get to open the Bible and learn more about who you are. That helps equip us in our relationship with you, but also in opportunity to share the gospel with others and to disciple others to do the ministry, lord. So we pray that this podcast would go out into the world for the purpose of your glory and for the purpose of saving lossals, and that people would replicate Bible studies, replicate opening the word. So I thank you for all those listening and for all those who are sharing and being a part of this conversation. It's such a blessing to do this each week, and so just be with us as we talk about your word. Lead this conversation, lord, with the Holy Spirit, and just bless our time In Jesus' name, amen. Amen.
Speaker 2:So we're in Acts 17, 22 to 34. And I think if there was like a structure, we would just give to the text before we even read it. Paul, of course, is approaching the Athenians with the gospel, and if there were like two big ideas that anchor us today, it's one he's explaining to them that Yahweh, the God he's speaking about, is everyone's God. This is not just, you know, a particular group of people and their God. Yahweh is everyone's God. That's the first idea. The second idea is that he is everyone's judge. Yahweh is everyone's judge. Maybe you could say it like this Yahweh is everyone's creator and Yahweh is everyone's judge. So, with those two ideas, let's pick up the text and see in verse 22. It says so.
Speaker 2:Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said Men of Athens, I observe that you are very religious in all respects, for while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship, I also found an altar with this inscription to an unknown God. The Greek would literally say to unknown God. Therefore, what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you the God who made the world and all things in it, since he is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands, nor is he served by human hands as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all people life and breath and all things, and he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth. Having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, that they would seek God. If perhaps they might grope for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us, for in him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, for we also are his children.
Speaker 2:Verse 29 probably closes, the first idea being then the children of God. We ought not to think that the divine nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man. So 22 to 29 kind of gives us that first overarching thought Yahweh is everyone's creator. So, guys, what do you see from the first few verses here, verse 22, verse 23,. Let's just start there. What is Paul doing? What's his strategy? I mean, what's the shape of this text? What do we do with it?
Speaker 3:Well, one. I think it's important to note that Paul was speaking to the Athenians, but first he was in the synagogue and in the market right, we looked in the pretext and then the Stoics, the Epicureans, then they engaged him and brought him to more of a theater of philosophical thought and discussion. And so from a more general podium to a very specific podium with, well, the thinkers of the day right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:So this is an opportunity for him to influence in some way the influencers and to bring back, bring their minds to focus in on on Christ and taking up a part of their worship and their culture to do it Nice. I think that's an important connection that he was invited into this arena. For what reason?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we know his audience shifts from a Jewish audience, where you normally would go to the synagogue, to a Gentile audience, specifically Greek audience Greek, yeah. And so you see a strategy shift. Instead of going straight to the scriptures, he's going to address their religion and address some of the things that he's noticed, and he's going to then go in into who is the one true God, who through creation. So he's going to start an argument not based off of necessarily the word right away, but off of their own thought, and I think so it takes a bit of a different strategy.
Speaker 1:Paul is reaching the Gentile nations, so they may not have as much of an understanding of the Jewish culture, believes, and so he's addressing it from a different angle. So this would have this would have meant Paul was thinking through how he was going to do it. He had a strategy, he he's an extremely smart individual who would have said hey, I need to use logic, I need to use reason, I need to use the things or the culture around me and to show them who God truly is. And so that's what Paul starts off with with how many, use your stuff, challenge it, push it a little bit and say and then start moving and then he eventually does use scripture, but that's where he starts out. So I think that's unique to his audience. So he shifts based off of where he is, his own context. He doesn't just go in and say you need to serve the Jewish God. He goes in with a different understanding.
Speaker 3:He also kind of starts with tooting their horn a little bit, you know.
Speaker 1:I need to use their culture.
Speaker 3:I see that you're very religious and show them why they're wrong or they're seen things incorrectly. But I think it was all in more flattery, or just to say yeah yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:Just, I see that you guys, I see that you guys are thinkers, you guys aren't ignoring that something's going on around you. Something made this place or something you know. There's something bigger than us, and I recognize. You guys recognize that. So let's start there. Let's start in common ground. We believe in something of a higher power of some kind, whether that's multiple gods or one God. So let's start there and then move in that direction.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a quote that I read earlier, just in preparation for this episode, and it said that in Olympus, the city of Olympus, olympus had a place where you could worship like any God that you wanted. Olympus was a very religious city and you know you'd have a shrine or altar here or there. But there's another quote that then went on to say but if you were in Athens, every God was given much more than just a tiny little shrine, like every God was given a temple, every God was given a much more serious place of worship. And so what Paul has basically said is this is the most religious city that I've been to outside of Jerusalem religious in a different way. So I think what he's saying is actually a reality. I observe that you are very religious, and he's now Kyle, as you said, seeking to use their culture and their thinking not to affirm their beliefs, but to use it as like a vehicle or a segue to declaring the truth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because he goes from I recognize your religious place to the God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man. So then he makes the distinguishing statement between what you believe in and what I believe in. Here's where it splits you think these temples hold your gods, where my God created all things, even you. So that kind of starts his argument in the direction of who is the one true God and starts to branch off from. Okay, we all believe in some sort of God or gods, but the one true God of heaven, the creator of all things, doesn't dwell in these temples.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think you know, speaking of Paul's strategy, this very much is the model of university apologetics today. We had an episode a couple of weeks ago, when Chance was here, concerning, you know, paul's arguing and reasoning and defending of the faith with individuals. And here Paul very specifically shows you, I think, an apologetic tactic called presuppositionalism. And presuppositionalism basically says it doesn't matter where you go, what you do, what you face in life. You are actually presupposing that this ultimate God exists. And if I were to sum up the argument of presuppositionalism maybe a little further, I do this in my classroom. All the time I say there's three principles that you can't deny, regardless of what you think about God, even if you're an atheist. Number one, the principle is called the law of induction, which means the next five minutes of our experience here in this physical world will be like the last five minutes. I'm not talking about like changes in weather. I'm talking about, like everybody assumes, like the laws of gravity. And so, therefore, the next five minutes is going to be like the last five minutes, because the law of gravity doesn't change. And so, you know, this is the illustration I give in my class.
Speaker 2:Everybody sitting in this room right now sitting in their chair is actually placing their faith in a creator or in the creator. And they say what? How could that be? Just by sitting in my chair. And I'm like have you ever reached a point where you're afraid of floating off into outer space? No, of course not. Why are you not afraid of suddenly floating out of your chair? Well, because of gravity. Okay, gravity is a law, yes, it is. And does that law ever change? No, it doesn't. So then, do laws exist without a lawgiver? No, laws don't exist without a lawgiver. So if I appeal to the physical laws of creation, of physics, that that we're sitting in right now, you actually have to trust in God just by sitting in your chair. So that's induction.
Speaker 2:The next would be that of logic. Everybody sitting here listening to me right now in this class is waiting for me to contradict myself, because subconsciously, you know what's logical versus illogical. In order for something to be logical, you have to first have an ultimate mind. You can't create logic, you use logic. And third would be the argument of morality, which I think he's going to get to later in this section. But Paul is straight up using a presuppositional argument to say no, no, like there is the ultimate God, who's created everything, and he needs nothing himself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he starts to break down in his, in this first part, the distinctions between the one true God and their gods, like, starts hammering them, like, right away he says the God who made everything, my God has created all things. Your gods have these piddly tasks right? My God is the God of heaven. Your Mount Olympus is nothing, right, that's just a little mountain. My God is the God of all things. And then he goes into this.
Speaker 1:He says in verse 25, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to mankind life and breath and everything. See, my God doesn't need our worship, like your gods do. Like your gods do, that's right. In order to please your gods, to get things from them, and they always they're going to get angry if you don't and there's going to be punishment for it. See, my God glorifies himself. He doesn't need us, he created us for his purpose and his glory. So he starts to really dig into, like, the main things that they believe in and starts to just chip away and say I know my God's better because my God's real and your God is. Your gods are not. Yeah, and so the character of God, the attributes of God, paul goes right into it to start this argument off. It's really cool.
Speaker 2:Well, I think the gods lower case G of the ancient world were nothing more than the machinations or the representation of humans themselves. Truly, these gods and their idea were reflections of people, because people created them. But our God is not someone that we create in our minds. Our God is someone that we are dependent on. He is not dependent on us, right, and that's what separates the biblical understanding of transcendence. God is so transcendent that he is above his creation. He's the one who's eternal. He's above it all. We are just in the midst of his playground, which he has created.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So while every other God says no, I need your worship, god says no, I don't need it. In fact, you're only worshiping me because I've given you breath. Without me, you have no breath at all. Right? So, definite contrast.
Speaker 1:And then in 26, he continues right. And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and boundaries of their dwelling places. So God is sovereign, he controls all movement of all mankind. He created the one man in which all humanity came out of. So he's sovereign, he controls all things. He's also talking about his providence, how God interacts with humanity in time and how he chooses who dwells where.
Speaker 1:Athenians, you are here because God put you here. He controls the leaders, he controls the nations, he controls the movement of the people. And so Paul's breaking down every major attribute of God that Paul knows, revealed by the Holy Spirit, how God operates and works. And so he doesn't have to. He's not going back into the Old Testament and go all right, let's go to Genesis, and maybe eventually he will, with some of these people, he'll go into the scriptures, but he's just taking all the key elements of how God has revealed himself, both general revelation and then some special revelation, and so he's how does God, how has God revealed himself to humanity and to us? And he's just pointing those things out.
Speaker 1:And so, again, a very base, apologetic, I think, structure here by Paul hitting the main things where you want to start and get people to agree on. But man, what a cool little passage of attribute, attribute, attribute, just listed, listed, listed, as Paul goes and that helps us as we get equipped to go share God's word, who God is, with people. This is a great, just a great, like oh, I can go to Genesis, oh, I can go here, I can go there. We just did Genesis one through three at the college for brave worship. It was really cool because they got to see how God made humanity and God's view of humanity before the fall and that it was very good. And these are all really important things when we do this. I think that's the argument. Paul's ramping up Like the way you view yourselves is so less than that how God views you.
Speaker 1:And I want you guys to know, athenians, that God loves you, that he values you, he actually created you for a purpose, that humanity is something God wants to be in relationship with, not that he needs it unlike your God.
Speaker 3:What are the things that usually would be?
Speaker 3:discussing this form and so he doesn't need it, but he wants it, and what an amazing thing to be unwanted by God. The pursuit of the ultimate good, or what is life about? And I think it's probably important to note that it specifically says Epicureans and Stoics. So why is it important that it was these two schools of thought that drew him into this discussion? And so Epicureans, stoics, they would have been like rivals in a sense. Epicureans philosophy and ideology would have been around longer than Stoicism New thoughts are something they like to tackle, but the Stoics and Epicureans would have always been kind of at odds with each other in debate.
Speaker 3:And so you have, like the Epicureans with more of the physical pleasure, you know, the greatest pleasure for the greatest good, kind of putting aside pain and frustration, kind of avoiding those things, and pleasure is the ultimate goal and the Stoics is virtue. So all these things that are important to them, you know, are very self-centered, and Paul is also taking these ideologies and kind of just setting all of those things aside. And it's not about the greatest good or the greatest life here, or what's important for you. What's most important is who made you and who made all of us, and it's the great unifier, god, our Creator.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then he gets into. He didn't just make you. And then he, then he goes into a quote in him we live and move and have our being, and even some of your own poets have said for we are indeed his offspring. Paul is going right to the to say you are image bearers of the one true God, like he gets right into, like how you were created, your identity, like he's playing off of.
Speaker 1:You guys have kind of had some of these thoughts. You guys have kind of talked around this about where you come from. It is true that God created you and he created you in his image. In him we live and move and have our being. He is in control of our very breath. He is in control of all the laws that we just talked about. He is the Creator of those, he controls those. He makes sure everything moves the way it's supposed to and so, yeah, you right here, living and breathing is all because of God and you have that connection with God, whether you believe in him or not, and that is there and you have to wrestle with that.
Speaker 2:I kind of alluded to this on Sunday, although in a little bit different of a format, but everyone has a relationship with God. I mean, there is no such thing as an atheist. There are people who have convinced themselves because of the sinful nature of their own thoughts. They have deceived themselves into thinking that there is no God, but the reality is based on Romans one. Mankind is without excuse, so everyone knows that there's a God. It's just rather, do you want to address him or not? How are you dealing with him? Like you don't have a choice. You have a relationship with God, but it's either a good one or it's a bad one, and so I think what Paul is getting at here is that you have your living, your moving, you have the very events of life that all come underneath the fact that God has allowed you to even exist. What I love when we were just talking a minute ago, though, about God determining the appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation.
Speaker 2:Actually, this is somewhat of a hot topic in America right now, with what I would call the border crisis, and what I would say is a very difficult time, I think, if you are seeking to lead and protect a group of people, your nation. As a leader, then you do what's necessary to protect the borders and the boundaries of that nation for your people. And yet, at the same time, we know that none of these moments in human history are outside of the hand and the movement of God. There may be people who are coming across the border from different nations who weren't being reached with the gospel, and you don't know, generations from now, how their children will hear the gospel in America. Like, as long as Christians are faithful to preach it right, it's a double-sided coin, on one hand, like you need to protect your country, that's what makes you a country. On the other hand, it's like well, yeah, but Lord, if people are coming, then maybe it's because the nations will be reached with the gospel.
Speaker 2:What I find interesting is, despite all of the comments about sovereignty, look what he says in verse 27. It says that or so that they would seek God if perhaps they might grope for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. This seems to allude to the fact that every person, based on their appointed times, boundaries, habitation, has the ability to seek, or literally to grope, to grab, to reach out for God, and that's God's will is that mankind would seek after him. That doesn't mean that it's done, but that's his desire. Seek after me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then he ends in 29 with more of the direction that we're going in. It says an image formed by the art and imagination of man and so, being a God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is light, gold or silver or stone and image formed in that way. But, man, what an amazing thing that we can't even really explain what it means. Totally. We're broken image bearers, and the creativity of God that made us the order, the design that we see around us, the things that we're still studying, the unknown that we still have no idea, the reason there are scientists and all these archaeologists and historians and all these people studying human life is because there's so much mystery, because God has so much more creativity than the God's you worship.
Speaker 1:The God of thunder, that's one little tiny thing that God made Right. Oh, the God of this, the God of that, like no, your guys, as imagination came up with these things, but God's creativity into the image that you bear as a human is so much greater. And so he's almost saying you're missing out on such a relationship with a real God that you're substituting it with stones, like you can have so much more God's who are limited, yeah, and so, like I think he's, he's appealing to their hearts more than anything else here and he's saying you guys could have so much more.
Speaker 2:And their intellect.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's getting them to think the gods that you worship are limited, they are within, they are bound by the creation, but the God that I worship is above creation. But one last thought in this section about how Yahweh is everyone's God. If you look back to verse 23, Paul, again, he looks at their objects of worship and he finds the one with the inscription to an unknown God. So he is using their culture again as a vehicle to his message. If you study the subject of Missiology, which is the study of missions, there's actually a very big debate today as to how appropriate it is, how far you can go to using another culture's you know characteristics in order to bring them the gospel. So, for instance and Bo Horland taught me all about this stuff Bo is a former pastor and elder at Mesa Baptist, where we were at, but he was a career, lifelong missionary in the Philippines, and basically there's this concern that in the field of missions, people can just reach after anything they want in order to get the gospel across, and I don't think that's appropriate either.
Speaker 2:It's an issue called contextualization, and so where you find this a really big problem is if you are a missionary and you're trying to reach a group of Muslims who you're in a Muslim majority country. Do you then say, hey, it's okay for you to accept the gospel but still to go to the mosque and to pray, so much so that people think you're still praying to Allah, but really you're praying to Jesus? Like, is that a level of contextualization we're okay with? Hey, read a Bible with Muslim friendly language that has been retranslated so that it's not as offensive to your initial Muslim reader. I think that goes too far.
Speaker 2:I don't think that you should encourage someone to continue to deceptively portray themselves as a Muslim, to change translations of the Bible, to go into the mosque, making others thinking you're praying to Allah. No, like. Unfortunately, there is a necessary separation. Once you become a Christian, you, regardless of where you're at, you, have to separate yourself from the world, and so I don't think Paul is affirming you know this unknown God as anything else. He's just saying I see that you're thinking about this. I'm gonna take that as an opportunity to tell you who he really is, whether you intended to get there or not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so and Paul's a great example in other letters that he writes to churches about, you know, doing the things of the culture that would then give you an identity of another belief system and not Christianity, right? Yeah, like you don't need to go to that feast and eat of that food because of what it was sacrificed for Not not for your God, but for other gods and so that's something you need to not participate in. That's would be a way to separate yourself and say no, we don't do that. And so there's these opportunities to say I'm a Christian, I don't do that. But then there are opportunities to say, yeah, I could participate in that and I can be a part of the culture of the day and Still eat this certain food or go to this certain event or whatever, because it doesn't say it doesn't go against what I believe, it doesn't say I'm associated with another God or another religion, but I'm just a part of the people. And so in a Muslim community, maybe you still wear Just what the people wear the clothing clothing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not for the purpose of what Allah would say right but you'd wear it because, well, everyone else wears this clothing. That's like I'm wearing jeans. I'm in a farming community, right, probably wear some jeans or some boots or something. You know like I could dress that way, even if they don't believe in Jesus. So I think it's okay. There's some things where we we need to stay in our own context a little bit, but not cross the line of saying I now identify with something else.
Speaker 2:Well, culture is always subject to the word of God. Culture doesn't come before it. Another example Maybe we'll wrap a bow on this topic here. Another example would be like some churches you know, maybe they want to reach like a whole group of you know Harley-Davidson writers or something like that, and you know what this? This has actually happened. Churches have decided to play for their time of worship like classic or Contemporary rock songs which have nothing to do with God. You've seen, this Church is playing just popular songs that people have known over time and then they go into like a 15 minute message afterwards. I think that's too far. Like, what are you singing and who are you singing to? If you're getting people to show up and to sing Garth Brooks Because, like you know, people around here listen to country music that's not worship, that's not appropriate.
Speaker 1:But you can use. You can use similar style of song, but change words.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:Then you would say we appeal to the style. That's okay, you can play some rock.
Speaker 2:music is the rock for the Lord is the words For the Lord, is the country music glorifying the Lord?
Speaker 1:right, or glorifying the self, or whatever. So I think, yeah, we can do that. I mean, we do that in music today. Right, there's? No, we don't. There's contemporary music I'm looking worship guy, contemporary music, hymns. I mean we've had this discussion before. There's all kinds of styles within music and we have substance and but it's what the, it's what the words say, it's, it's what we're actually saying out loud to God. We can't sing songs that have nothing to do with Jesus while we're in church Worshiping Jesus, like that would be inappropriate, you know, and we can't pause. I think we can change the style, but not the content when in Rome do as the Romans do and I think as you were saying, to make the distinction between Doing and being.
Speaker 3:If you were trying, if we're putting on a facade, like I'm, I'm being like you and I'm acting. That's not what Paul was talking about. He's talking about making a connection and Coming to, to the level that other people are at culturally so that you can relate to them and they can relate to you. But yeah, but just pointing out, be with people in such a way that you can help lead them to Jesus where they're at, and and often, if you're coming from a position of you know, seen as being condescending, or if you're coming from an outward perspective, you won't be listening to as greatly if you're seen as a peer and equal, or somebody who is, who is actually carrying when you're at and and leading you to where, yeah, god wants you to be, and that is, you know, with Jesus.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think it's well. We know this, because Jesus preaches that it's your heart that changes and what comes out of your heart will come out of your mouth, but it's it's your character that you're distinguishing. When you're in the community, your character should be that of what God tells us in the Bible to show, which is through Christ. So our foundation in Christ changes our heart, transforms us, and so our character should be different. Right when in Rome, act as you know, be with the Romans. Well, yeah, don't act.
Speaker 1:If you're Jewish, why would you separate yourself externally like the Pharisees would, and to create this distance between you and them because of, well, you're not dressed like me and you don't talk like me and you don't eat the things that I eat, what Paul's like. How would that? How would you then share the gospel with that if you did so much external separation? Your character separates you from them. The way you behave separates you from them. The way you talk separates you from them. I think he's getting, he's gonna get more into that, especially in his letters to churches, because that's that's how a Christian should be. I shouldn't walk around with this External holiness that says, well, I can't approach that guy because you've so separated yourself from me externally that I don't feel like I can even associate with you. Now we're causing barriers in between.
Speaker 2:Who the gospel should be reached. I think maybe a rule of thumb to just close this up would be if I'm not Sacrificing my doctrine and if I'm not sacrificing my morals which go hand-in-hand on the altar of culture, then it's okay. If I'm not sacrificing my, my beliefs and my morality, then I can engage in culture. If I have to sacrifice either of those two, then I should not engage with culture.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean examples, like I Go to professional baseball games. But maybe there are some things that that organization chooses do that I don't agree with. Well, I'm just not gonna participate in those things. I'm still gonna participate in like cultural things. It just may not be certain times right, we went to bull riding with our families. Yeah right, I'm sure the bull riding culture is somewhat is probably not. We wouldn't want our kids around the cowboys. Right, they may say some words. We may not want our kids around, but we went to the bull riding event.
Speaker 1:It was a lot of fun, right. The event was family friendly. We engage in a cultural event that has nothing to do with the Bible. It was a fun event. We went and had fun, and so we can. It doesn't mean you can't go and do the things in the world that the world has as offered for entertainment sake, as long as you're not setting aside your faith, setting aside your relationship with the Lord to go do it, and there's times you're going to have to say no, for sure, yep.
Speaker 2:So, with that being said, we've talked about how Yahweh is everyone's God. Now we talk about how he is everyone's judge. Paul has started to allude to this, his desires that people would seek Him. So, looking verse 30. Now. Therefore, having overlooked the times of ignorance, god is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent. Why? Because he has fixed a day in which he will judge the world in righteousness through a man whom he has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead. Now, when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some began to sneer, but others said we shall hear you again concerning this. So Paul went out of their midst, but some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them. So, guys, 30 to 34, he's everyone's judge. The Gospel is at the forefront in this passage. What are some of the contours of this section that you see?
Speaker 1:Well, paul preaches the Gospel at the end. He does I mean, that's what he gets into the foundation of our faith right at the end repentance, turning away from sin, accepting Christ or God as your Savior, and he talks about a resurrection. Those are all really important things to our faith. That is doctrine, that is foundational. So he starts to introduce then things that God has done for us, but he also talks about that there will be a day where there will be judgment on the world, and so there's a bit of a sense of urgency.
Speaker 1:I think, with Paul, like you guys can't mess around. You need to turn in repent, because the one who saves also judges, which you already mentioned. That, dakota, yeah, the one who saves is also the one who judges. And so, really, which side of that line do you want to be on? Do you want to be on God side or the world side? And there, because there's only two sides, right, there's not why I'm on the side of Zeus and I'm on the side of this God and that God. No, no, no, no, no. There's one God. You're either on his side or you're on the world side, the sin side, god side, or an agent of Satan, and he's distinguishing that here and so, but he's also doing it with the message of hope, with the message of grace, with the message for everybody in all places and all people, that God came to die on a cross and be resurrected. So there's a message of hope, but the reality of judgment and adjust God, and so again, hammering the characteristics out of God, hammering out what, how he has revealed himself and how he is going to work amongst humanity and how he has handled sin and how he's saved people. But there will be a time where judgment will come. And so man really wrapping up so many like you could write books on one of these topics, but he'd narrow, he breaks it down so fast here. But he gets to the gospel and I think that's the biggest point we have in this passage. Paul gets to the place to say here's the creator of all things. He came to save you and this is how you get saved, and he wants to get there every single time. I think that should be our goal as Christians.
Speaker 1:In conversations you know, we've talked about books like Greg Koko's book, who talks all about how to have conversation to then kind of get to that point where, boom, share the gospel. You want to kind of guide that conversation to that place. Paul takes that opportunity. He doesn't shy away from it, even though some mocked him. But some believed and it's worth it when they believe. Who cares if I get mocked, because I'm telling the truth. I want people to know it. And then people did. Some came and believed. And that was the whole point of why Paul was in there, not to uplift himself like the rest of the thinkers were doing, but to say I glorify the one true God and I'm here to share the message of truth. And I don't care if you disagree with me, I'm going to do what God has told me to do. And results people came to know Jesus.
Speaker 2:It does seem like there's a question that we could ask, though, in verse 30, therefore, having overlooked the times of ignorance, like what does that mean? Does that mean that, like God would not hold anybody accountable in the past? Thomas Constable, you should find this resource if you can Just look up Constable's notes, and he has hundreds of pages of pastoral research done throughout his career on every book of the Bible. So I'm on Constable's notes for the book of Acts, I'm looking at what he has to say for chapter 17, verse 30, overlooking the time, times of ignorance, and just two paragraphs here. I'm going to read it because he would say it more precisely than I would say it.
Speaker 2:Before Jesus Christ came, god not view people as being as guilty as he does now, now that Christ has come. People before were guilty of failing to respond to former revelation, but now they are more guilty in view of the greater revelation that Jesus Christ brought at his incarnation. God quote unquote overlooked the times of ignorance in a relative sense only. Before the incarnation people died as unbelievers and were lost, but now there is more light. God has revealed more of his self, more of his plans. Consequently, people's guilt is greater this side of the incarnation.
Speaker 2:Obviously, many people have not heard the gospel and are as ignorant of the greater revelation of God that Jesus Christ brought as people who lived before the incarnation were. Nevertheless, they live in a time when God has revealed more of himself than previously. Therefore, god demands that all people everywhere should quote unquote repent, and I think that's the idea. Now that Christ has come, there's less excuses than you had before, and so he's appealed to the position of presuppositionalism. He said you're without an excuse. You know this creator exists, and even if you haven't heard the gospel message, you should be asking the question who is this God who created me? And if you truly seek after him, even if the gospel hasn't been reached to you yet, god will find a way to get it to you. God will find a way to get the gospel to your doorstep. Doesn't matter if you're in the Amazon or like off somewhere in a country that prohibits the gospel. If you've really sought after him, he'll get the gospel to your doorstep.
Speaker 1:And so I think this is an interesting thing here, because sometimes in our opportunities to share the gospel, sometimes people shy away from judgment. They say I'm just going to share the love of Christ. I just want people to know God loves them. I just want people to know God is compassionate towards them and that he wants them to follow him and do nice things for people. Be kind, consider others, love your neighbor. Just kind of points to all the feel good stuff which everything I just said, god, jesus, does want you to do, those things, that's true, but for what reason?
Speaker 2:For what reason?
Speaker 1:Why repent?
Speaker 2:if there isn't a judgment.
Speaker 1:What are you repenting of, then? And so you can't do the lovey-dovey Jesus, why die on a cross?
Speaker 2:if death is not a real penalty.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 1:So if you have the power to resurrect, you have the power to stop people, you have the power to heal, you have the power to control all of humanity, why die on a cross, right? That doesn't make much sense. And so when we share the gospel, it's got to be repentance and you have to talk about judgment. That is loving. It is God is essentially saying I didn't just warn you, but I gave you myself to save you from your sin, to save you from the wrath of God that is coming upon you if you do not repent and believe.
Speaker 1:Paul does not shy away, he does not preach a soft Jesus, he preaches the resurrected king, and that requires repentance and a recognition of God's wrath and judgment on the people. Now, he got mocked because of a resurrection here. That's fine, that's fine. But what he did was he gave him the truth, mocked me. All I want that. I believe in a resurrected God, that one that came down, but the evidence is abundant about those who followed Christ, about those who have eyewitnesses of the resurrection, who walked with Jesus after his death. And so, man, you can mock me all I want, all you want, but the reality is you have to answer individually to the one true God on that day. And yeah, I would rather be on the side of Jesus than the side of the world on that day. And so I'm going to keep following him because of what he's done for me, because I've experienced his grace and recognize that I'm a sinner. That is what Paul's getting to here. That's where he gets to with the resurrection. That's where he gets to with repentance. He's addressing the Athenian sin. So we went from I'm going to address your religion, I'm going to address your gods and I'm going to show you that they don't mean anything, they don't save you from anything, but I'm going to tell you about my God, who saves you from the worst, who saves you from his own wrath, who has died for you. And well, what a message.
Speaker 1:Now, the thinkers of the day may think this is not logical. A resurrected person, a God who came down to be a man like this, is illogical. Why would he do that? So what do you guys think if you were asked that question by somebody? Resurrection seems illogical. It doesn't seem to really make much sense. Why would he? Why doesn't he just save us another way? Why does he have to die? What's the point of that. Why can't he just make everything good again? No bad stuff can be in the world. No more evil.
Speaker 3:It'd be so powerful if he created all this, what's the point of the cross? A common question, good question to ask.
Speaker 1:What do you guys think if somebody said what's the point of the cross. What if God is so powerful? Right? Paul just said he created all things. He is sovereign over all things.
Speaker 3:He controls the borders, he controls the people's movement.
Speaker 1:He is the ultimate power over all things Relationship. God created us to be in relationship.
Speaker 3:Snap his fingers and say everyone's good God continued to seek out that relationship first through the Jews through the Hebrew people throughout time and time and time again he was rejected. But this is, I mean, the resurrection is kind of like the end all to be all of, like a sifting tool. It's this, is this, is it? And it's like that trump card. And one question that came to mind, sorry, one question that came to mind. One was the response right, Because you have that question why? Why is it important that God did it this way? But when your, both of your translations said sneered, right, when they, when they heard resurrection, some sneered and some stuck around, Right, so we written, you guys had said mocked, do we? Yours did? So we're reading sneered specifically as mocked. Yeah, but that's a difference between the responses that he gets in the Jewish community.
Speaker 3:And says you know, because he gets anger, he gets resentment or acceptance, a smorgasbord, as it were, of responses. It gets it present in the in this world, in this realm a little more extreme than he gets that guy's dumb and that's, but I think when taken seriously, that's a dividing line.
Speaker 3:I mean he's he's drawing a line in the sand, philosophically and religiously. Yeah, he's saying that, though, even in this arena, philosophically, and in the Greek religion, it's endless gods. If you need this, this is the God you go to. You need that. If you don't, you build a statue, do an unknown God, and he'll give you what you need. Philosophically, that was one of my frustrations in my undergraduate when studying philosophy. It was just this endless cycle of just talking and arguing and it never ended, and I think they liked it that way because there was no resolve and no responsibility. But Paul is showing them where the responsibility is, because that's like they were on board when he was talking about one God and we were all created by him. But it's like wait the resurrection. That's absurd and some might respond the resurrection.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if Paul goes back to creation and explains to them, you know this is what we get.
Speaker 1:I don't know how deep Paul goes into other details, but if he goes back to Genesis and goes back to the relationship between God and Adam and Eve, there was a relationship before the fall and so in order to restore that relationship, we have the cross, like you talked about. And so if you get on board with creation and you get on board with how all of that took place, you have to respond to the brokenness of mankind, you have to respond to the fall and you have to respond to whatever relationship was broken. And that's what Paul is getting to, and he's saying it's Jesus that restored it, it's Jesus that died on a cross, it's Jesus that rose from the grave in order to say it is complete, it is finished. I have now done what is required in order to be in relationship again with humanity, to be in a true relationship, to walk alongside. Now the Holy Spirit can abide in the believer. I'm now one with Christ. I have accomplished the task in order for that to happen, and so the cross is important.
Speaker 3:The resurrection is important because without it it isn't the snap of a finger from God God does more because he wants relationship.
Speaker 2:When it comes down to it, I think the resurrection implies that the God we believe in has took on the creation, has took on human flesh, and I think that may have been one of the facets of their rejection is that the gods that they knew of, some of them were so out of this world and so non-relational. I mean, that's what the gods of the ancient world were. They weren't after love and a relationship, they were after their own gain and in a selfish, human, sinful way. And so when Paul now speaks about the resurrection of the Son of God, what he just did was introduce a concept where God became a man, and that was something that was inconceivable for them.
Speaker 2:But if you think about it, there is no other way to solve the sin problem unless you have God, who alone can forgive sins, and unless you have another man who can stand as a substitute for mankind. You've got to have a God man in order to satisfy both sides God's justice and man's sins. So that was the concept that he introduced. Maybe to close up, I see three different responses. Some sneered verse 34, some completely believed and followed, but there's like this little statement made in verse 32, others said like a neutral group. We shall hear you again concerning this.
Speaker 2:So, and that's nothing more than the parable of the soils, some rejected right away, some accepted and then some are like well, we'll listen to more, but that's what's happening and I think Paul is perfectly happy if 100 people in the Areopagus reject and maybe three or four get saved, as long as, like, you've really gotten saved in hallelujah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, then a church can be planted, then church can be planted, then they can reach those people brought as a path to destruction, narrow as the gate to eternal life.
Speaker 2:But some are saved. Let's go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think sometimes we get disappointed that the masses didn't get saved like we're at like a Billy Graham revival or something. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and sometimes God does that, but we know that multiplication happens through individuals, right, and when one or two gets saved, what an amazing thing that God can do through the one or the two, because we see people discipling others and growing the church, and it's God working through those people that does that work. We, we preach the word. You said this yesterday in your sermon. I can be as prepared and be as eloquent I can be, I can do all the things which we want to do because we want to honor God in the way that we preach. Yeah, but we don't save people. That's right.
Speaker 1:The message God saves people, and so Paul Paul here isn't, I would say, paul's extremely good speaker and very intelligent, but he himself knows it's repentance and the resurrection, which he didn't accomplish, who came to Paul in the road to Damascus. God, right, god sought him out, god changed his heart, god drew him to him. Paul knows that and that's what he's doing here. He's being obedient to the to God, he's preaching the word and God is moving, and so we need to make sure we don't get stuck in that place where we think we got to save everybody, thank you.
Speaker 1:Let God do the work and let's just be obedient to what he has told us to do. I think that's what Paul's doing. Yeah, amen. Any other comments, david? No more comments.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for listening to the Be Disciples podcast. Make sure you subscribe on YouTube. We also have social media platforms for Ottawa Bible Church as well as the Be Disciples podcast. You can follow us on those for different content. You can go to our website, autoabiblechurchcom, for all of our services, for all of our other content, such as sermons, which will be on YouTube as well.
Speaker 1:Also, if you're in the area, resurrection Sunday is coming up, march 31st, and we're going to be doing a service at the Ottawa Memorial Auditorium downtown one service at 10am. We want you to join us there, if you're in the area, to hear the gospel, to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ, which we've mentioned much today, as we do in every episode, and so we're going to celebrate that. We're going to have a great time with family, with friends. We're going to eat together. What a great opportunity. So come out, have fun. We're so excited that you're listening to it on YouTube, that you're coming on. We're able to reach more people and so continue to share. We want people to know the gospel, study God's Word. Be equipped to go make more disciples. Have a blessed week, thank you.