Join us in the Book of Acts as we unwrap the profound impact of Paul and Silas's imprisonment and the jailer's transformative conversion. Feel the warmth of fellowship and discover the potent truths hidden within biblical prophecies, from the book of Daniel to Genesis 49. As we unpack these scriptures, you'll find yourself fortified with a renewed understanding of Jesus as the Messiah and gain insights into our commitment to nurturing personal and communal faith at Ottawa Bible Church.
Our conversations don't stop at the church door; they extend into the bustling intersections of modern culture, where discernment and influence become the currency of youth ministry. Together, we tackle the tough questions of pop culture's sway over the hearts of our youth, while offering strategies grounded in scripture to shepherd them through the tumultuous seas of misinformation. Learn from our candid dialogues on leading by example in today's world, whether it's through sidewalk ministry or navigating the complex debates surrounding moral absolutes.
But the journey doesn't end there. We reach out to college students standing at the crossroads of faith and secular ideologies, sharing personal stories and practical advice to embolden them in their witness. Tune in as we suggest invaluable resources like Greg Koukl's "Tactics" to equip the next generation for the challenging but rewarding task of defending biblical truth amidst academia's skeptical landscape. By fostering Christ-centered connections and emphasizing the importance of scripture over social scrolling, this session is crafted to inspire and engage believers in all walks of life.
Join us in the Book of Acts as we unwrap the profound impact of Paul and Silas's imprisonment and the jailer's transformative conversion. Feel the warmth of fellowship and discover the potent truths hidden within biblical prophecies, from the book of Daniel to Genesis 49. As we unpack these scriptures, you'll find yourself fortified with a renewed understanding of Jesus as the Messiah and gain insights into our commitment to nurturing personal and communal faith at Ottawa Bible Church.
Our conversations don't stop at the church door; they extend into the bustling intersections of modern culture, where discernment and influence become the currency of youth ministry. Together, we tackle the tough questions of pop culture's sway over the hearts of our youth, while offering strategies grounded in scripture to shepherd them through the tumultuous seas of misinformation. Learn from our candid dialogues on leading by example in today's world, whether it's through sidewalk ministry or navigating the complex debates surrounding moral absolutes.
But the journey doesn't end there. We reach out to college students standing at the crossroads of faith and secular ideologies, sharing personal stories and practical advice to embolden them in their witness. Tune in as we suggest invaluable resources like Greg Koukl's "Tactics" to equip the next generation for the challenging but rewarding task of defending biblical truth amidst academia's skeptical landscape. By fostering Christ-centered connections and emphasizing the importance of scripture over social scrolling, this session is crafted to inspire and engage believers in all walks of life.
Welcome to the Be Disciples podcast with your host, kyle Morris, dakota Smith, david Glavin and Chance Holleran. Second episode Chance, you better perform better than the last one. Just kidding, I want to ask you all to just follow us on Instagram, facebook. You can either go at Ottawa Bible Church, follow us at our church, or you can follow us at the Be Disciples podcast on both those platforms as well. We're also on YouTube, where now we're posting videos instead of just the audio part of our podcast, so you can go on there and you can see us talk to each other. I don't know why that's more important, but some people like videos more, so that's why we're doing this.
Speaker 1:We love to just get together and study God's Word. So, if you're new to our podcast, we have our Bibles open because we're all about reading the Word together so that we can be examples and give that to our people, to see what it's like just to discuss God's Word together, and we want people to replicate it in their discipleship with one another. So thank you so much for listening to our podcast. Welcome, guys. I'm glad to be here today. This is one of the most, for me, the most exciting parts of the week Just sitting down with you guys reading the Bible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a lot to work through, as we've been working through Acts, the last episode, we worked through Paul and Silas they're in prison, how the Lord got them out, the jailers' conversion, and so it's fun because I think not only is it beneficial to us, but I think we know that people are listening, people are watching and that it's benefiting their walk as well. So, yeah, this is something that we do on Mondays and we're hoping that it benefits the community of Ottawa, franklin County, the surrounding areas, and that you're being equipped to understand the Bible to a further degree as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if you're in Ottawa, franklin County, we are at Ottawa Bible Church. Our services are at 9 and 11 on Sunday mornings, so we want to invite you out to come by and say hello to us and just come and have a conversation with us. We're here every week and so it's just awesome to be able to meet people who've listened in, who've learned, who've grown, and so we're always encouraged by that. So thank you all for listening and bringing your words of encouragement to us, because that's why we're doing this, so that we can stay in the word together as a church and continue to educate our community. So I'm glad to have you guys around this table Chance. It's been cool to get to know you more as you've come to Ottawa Bible Church doing college ministry, discipling young men, bringing them to church, seeing them come and listen to the word so that's been super fulfilling.
Speaker 1:David, as you've just continued to do youth ministry at our church, leading young people. We've got one in Africa right now living sent out there for almost two months-ish, maybe a little less, but she's out there doing that. You guys are planning cool stuff for the year and Dakota, leading us in the word each and every week, and so there's exciting things going on at Ottawa Bible. We're excited to do ministry together and I love coming here Monday mornings to do this job, because it's not a job to me, I just love being in fellowship with you guys, and so that's kind of the heartbeat of Ottawa Bible, of our friendship.
Speaker 1:I've known Dakota forever, as some of you may know, since we're 18, 19. So this is so fulfilling, not just because we're reading God's Word, but we're doing it together and it's fellowship. So I hope that's encouraging. I hope you also have a community of believers that you get to do that with and do it every week. Don't neglect it. Don't neglect this gathering together, because what that does is it allows for the enemy to seep in and to destroy relationships and to get us off that path. So that's why we're in Acts we want to learn how to grow, equip. We want to learn how to be together as a church. We want to know where the church, where it started, what Jesus has done. So we're going to continue that in Acts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, chance, why don't you lead us in?
Speaker 3:prayer. Yeah, father, we're just coming forward in the name of Jesus, so we thank you for another great day Just studying your Word and the opportunities to sharpen one another and sit around a table as a man and find out what you have written to us and what the church looked like. And, god, I just pray that this podcast and this message will reach Ottawa, and not just Ottawa, but surrounding nation and the people around it, lord, and it doesn't just stay here and stay local, that we can go and reach the nations as we pray for. And, yeah, we'll just lead our conversation, lead our time and Jesus' name amen.
Speaker 2:Amen.
Speaker 1:Amen and God take us into Acts, chapter 17.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is Acts 17,. 1 through 15. And while I think the two accounts that we're going to receive today of Paul going to Thessalonica and Paul going to Berea, well, they might seem short and maybe inconsequential, you know most people identify Acts, chapter 17, as when Paul goes to Athens and he speaks on Mars Hill. These little paragraphs, these little passages, tell us more about Paul's ministry, although the responses between Thessalonica and Berea are completely two polar opposites. So let's read about the first response of Paul preaching in Thessalonica.
Speaker 2:Now, when they had traveled through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica where there was a synagogue of the Jews. Thessalonica was probably a hundred miles away from Philippi, so that's about the distance Paul traveled. Amphipolis and Apollonia are about 30 miles each apart from each other, so you know these are smaller locations. On his way to Thessalonica Verse 2, and according to Paul's custom, he went to them and for three Sabbaths, reasoned with them from the scriptures, explaining and giving evidence that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead and saying this Jesus, whom I am proclaiming to you, is the Christ Verse 4,. And some of them were persuaded and joined, paul and Silas, along with a large number of God fearing Greeks and a number of the leading women. I think the first four verses actually gives us enough principles to kind of converse about for a moment. Because what do you see, especially as it pertains to verses two and three kind of gives like a summary statement of what he's doing there now in Thessalonica.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it tells us a little bit about his strategy. Right, he goes into towns and he goes to the synagogue of the Jews. We know that was his custom, that was that's what he did everywhere he went, whereas the synagogue that's where I'm going to start and I'm going to proclaim the gospel there. And, more specifically, it tells us how he does it. It says he responds with them from the scriptures, so he doesn't just again go in there and just teach Paul's word. He goes in there and he gets the scriptures open and he starts to walk them through scripture to show Jesus throughout the Old Testament.
Speaker 1:You got to remember this is just being written. Paul's living here. There's no, there's no gospel books. There isn't any letters. This is all happening. So he just has Genesis all the way through and through the, through the minor prophets, major prophets. He has all that. He's. He's working through the scriptures to prove to them, to prove to them who Jesus is. So what have you guys done in that? In that vein, when it comes to maybe an apologetics type question, or when you're studying God's word, how do we know that Jesus is the Messiah? How do we know that he's the one that was to come? What are some areas of scripture that you go to? What are things that just come to your mind? Here's where I'm going to go in the Old Testament to show Jesus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, prophetically speaking, like in my mind it's always constructed like this. I've got Genesis, chapter 3, the proto-Evangelium, where the snake crusher is promised and yet in crushing the head of the serpent his heel would be bruised. Genesis 49 is the prophecy about the lion of Judah. You also look at things like Leviticus 16 and 17, the Passover and the Passover Lamb, deuteronomy 18, the promise of one coming and the likeness of Moses, and then from there you have like Psalm 2, a prophecy about the Messiah, psalm 22, isaiah 53, daniel 9, like prophecies abound, which makes sense why he would go to the Jews first. I was just looking up in Romans here, romans 116.
Speaker 2:Paul says I'm not ashamed of the gospel, for it's the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. So we got to remember, like the Jewish people, that was God's covenantal people first. The gospel was meant for them first. This is that scene you see, where the Canaanite woman is speaking to Jesus about receiving the gospel and he says don't you know like I've been sent to the house of Israel only? And she says yes, but even like the dogs, we'll feast after the crumbs of their master's table. So it seems like, yes, the gospel is for the Jew first. Jesus is a Jewish Messiah, but that Jewish Messiah is for all the nations. If somebody should be receptive of this message, it should be the people in the synagogues.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they should know more about God's Word, because they have God's Word.
Speaker 2:They've been given the law, the promises, the covenants.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they have the history of God working through the people of Israel. So they should recognize the Messiah they should have when he came. And so Paul's going back to that. Let's go back through Scripture and let's look at what Jesus has done and what was said before he came, incarnate as a fully man, fully God came. What happened before that to show us this is the Messiah.
Speaker 1:So he's making these arguments. It's kind of like he goes in the synagogue three, it says, three Sabbath in a row and three Sabbath days. He reasoned with them. So they're literally there, scripture open, walking through, showing them this is what God said, who the Messiah would be and what. He'd look like this and point out, just as you were going through Scripture. So what an amazing like scene. What would be cool to be the fly on the wall in the synagogue listening to Paul break down Scripture to prove that Jesus is God Like what a cool thing that would be. So that's what he's doing. He goes there, he's going to convince him to reason with them. And what do you guys think? What are Scriptures you guys go to when maybe a student, college student, junior high school how do I know that Jesus is the actual Messiah? How do I know? Jesus is God and you're looking at Old Testament for that reference.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Isaiah 53, like Dakota mentioned, is like my bread and butter on that of, hey, here is something that was written hundreds of years before the Messiah was said to have come, and then it lays out perfectly exactly what's going to happen to Jesus and like there's no denying that what is written in Isaiah 53 is exactly what happens and is speaking to the Messiah of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 3:And so, as students bring that up, that's always a conversation because there's that oh well, is it just the New Testament that I should be reading? Is Old Testament? You know out of it and how do we put those two together? And that's kind of the draw of, well, the Old Testament is pointing to Christ coming all throughout it and that's what, as we see Paul's life and just this of him going into the synagogues is. He was going to the place where he learned and he was studying the Old Testament and say, hey, we were missing a couple of things, like we were reading it the whole time, but what has is prophesied to come is here and has come and so we need to be focusing on that. So that's kind of as students bring up those questions and stuff, that's where I always go for kind of that specific conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, isaiah 53 is like the crown jewel of the Old Testament, the 12 verses in that chapter. Even today in Israel, you know, students are literally taught to like, go to the next chapter like rabbis, and they don't educate students anymore through Isaiah 53, because they'd get too many questions. I find that incredibly interesting. Yeah, because you can't have some more liberal scholars on the Jewish side would say well, no, the person who's being wounded for our transgressions is the nation of Israel. But that doesn't work. Like a nation can't receive punishment to cover for the sins of anybody else.
Speaker 3:You have to like a person can do that, but not a nation, how are they going to cast lots for the nation's clothes Right?
Speaker 1:Right See playing out. Yeah, very right, right, yeah, David, what about you?
Speaker 4:One of my main go tos is John. One In the beginning was the word. The word was with God. The word was God, nothing was made. And through him everything was made and without him nothing was made.
Speaker 4:Talking through the God as the understanding that Trinity is not an easy thing for anyone conceptually, but just understanding the, that Jesus was a part of creation didn't just come at one point in time. And then I also like to point out the types of Christ, with the serpent in the desert, with the, with many of the ones that you mentioned, but more specifically, to use those illustrations to, to bring those to life for young people specifically, so that they can see that, because we don't have an understanding of Jewish tradition, you know, kids don't have a strong understanding of exactly what that is but to appeal to the reason of understanding that Jesus is, was a part of the Trinity throughout creation and the, the logos being the, the wisdom, you know, the divine, the word and everything is made and brought together through the wisdom of, of that and the. So that that's what I like to use. I like to use those, those narrative references, that kind of bring that story to life for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, Dakota, I'm gonna. I'm gonna put you on the spot, because I sat in your Gospels class and you were talking about prophecy in your Gospels class and you talked about the exactness of some of the numbers and of, in prophecy, things that have come true days, the exact days of when things would happen. Give us like a short breakdown, you don't have to go through the whole thing. But about prophecy, how does the Old Testament and prophecy really show us that, Well, God is exact. He's not just close or in the ballpark, but he's exact in the things that are going to happen and that what he says is going to come true.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, daniel nine, verses 24 to 27 speak about the prophetic 70 weeks, and the 70th week to finalize that prophecy is what we call the day of Jacob's trouble. So basically, these are 70 weeks in a week, declared in Jewish excuse me, jewish prophetic literature. The word week actually just means unit of seven, so you could translate it as 70 units of seven years, which means Daniel, chapter nine is talking about a total of 490 literal years of prophecy where the Jewish people are going to undergo some real tension. And so the first part of that prophecy is that there would be a seven week unit, or a 49 year unit, where there'd be a decree given by a Persian king for the people to go back and rebuild Jerusalem. That happened when Arta Xerxes told them they could go and do that. You also have a 434 year period between the rebuilding of Jerusalem and then the time of Messiah the prince. That prophecy took place with exactness. So, daniel I mean to a literal standpoint, if you, if you understand the numbers correctly he got the very coming of Christ down correctly, all the way down to 483 years with exactness, and the prophecy stated that this, of course, would be the time where Jesus makes himself publicly known in Jerusalem. So that would have been when he rode in on a donkey the week before his passion. If we have 483 years of prophecy, that's already been completed. We know that that's 69 weeks total, leaving us with one week left. By the way, the prophecy said the Messiah would be cut off, meaning he'd be crucified, he'd be killed, which that happened as well. So we are still waiting to this day for that final 70th week, this final seven year period, which we call the year of the tribulation, and I imagine Paul pointing in the synagogue to these kind of scriptures and saying Daniel got it right. You know, these things did happen. He has to be the Christ and we're still waiting on that seven year tribulation period today.
Speaker 2:And I would say, one more example that a lot of people pass over, but I could probably give this in two minutes, is, I excuse me, genesis, chapter 49. If you just look at verses like eight through 10, look at what it says Genesis 49, eight through 10. This is Jacob prophesying over each of his sons, the 12 sons of Jacob who had become the 12 tribes, and he's prophesying about Judah's family line, which would be the tribe of Judah. He says your brothers shall praise you, meaning all other of the tribes are going to look up to Judah. Your hand shall be on the neck of your enemies, your father's sons shall bow down to you. So, basically, you're going to have the greatest authority and you're going to defeat your enemies. Hint, hint, somebody's going to come from your line and defeat all their enemies. Verse nine Judah is a lion's welp From the prey, my son, you have gone up, he couches, he lies down as a lion, and as a lion who dares rouse him up. So, judah, there's somebody coming from your line that's going to be lion-like in nature, even royal in nature. Verse 10, the scepter, meaning the instrument that a king holds to show that he is holding his power. The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor the ruler staff from between his feet, until Shia Lo comes, and to him shall be the obedience of all the people. So the expectation was hey, judah, once a king starts to arise from your line, like David, then Solomon, then all the other kings, that scepter will never depart until Shia Lo comes. So the prophecy is saying Judah, the kingship in your family line it's never going to end, especially because the final king will continue to be king forever. We'll get this.
Speaker 2:Around 4 BC, the Roman Empire officially took over Judah altogether, and they removed one of their last legal rights to conduct capital punishment, and so the people saw that as like man. All we have now is a puppet king. We just have Herod the great, who's over us. We have no more power, no more authority. We can't conduct ourselves.
Speaker 2:At that point, the rabbis in 4 BC would have been walking the streets and tearing their robes and shouting woe unto us. We have a failed prophecy. Woe unto us because Shia Lo it's another term for the Messiah Shia Lo has not come. And so that would have been a like. They would have thought man, the Word of God is broken. But lo and behold, most scholars actually believe that Jesus was born around 4 BC. So which means they didn't have a failed prophecy, which means their king was there. He was just there in infant form. And so if I'm ministering to a Jewish individual today, like Paul is in the synagogue, I'm going right to Genesis 49, because I'm saying look, you got two options. Either Jesus, shia Lo, was here in 4 BC, which we know he was there, or you have a failed prophecy from Genesis 49. How do you deal with those things, and it's not to put them like in a corner, to undercut them, but it's to show them. If Jesus is not the fulfillment of that prophecy, then you have no messianic prophecies left to look at.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and here in verse 3 of chapter 17,. You know, yes and two, he's reasoning, but verse 3, explaining and proving that it was necessary for Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead. So we know that many Jewish people thought the Messiah was going to look a little different than Jesus. A king, which Jesus is, but not the king that Jesus appeared to be. A king that would come in, defeat Rome.
Speaker 1:Israel's land would be taken back, just like King David, and kind of come back to that glory where Paul is then now proving to the synagogues, to these people, that Jesus didn't come this time for that reason, but he came to suffer, to pay the penalty for sin, so that all could come to him, and then his resurrection is him proving that he is the Son of God and that he has come for that purpose and he will come again and we'll see King Jesus, the way you guys have kind of thought this whole time, where he will come back and he will rule and reign in a way in which you are all thinking.
Speaker 1:So he's having to break that down. So, from all of your guys's points, he's going through the Old Testament, he's going through prophecy, he's sharing with them. It must be Jesus because of what you just said, and now we have to talk about why did Jesus then come to suffer first before he would return again to rule and reign? So he's breaking down the argument as far as he can, and it's taken him three Sabbath days. We're doing this in a little truncated less than an hour but Paul would have spent some time really opening the Word, going through it, having discussion and spending the time needed in order that people would know that Jesus is the Son of God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's important to also remember too. The Old Testament doesn't just depict that the Christ would suffer, but that the Christ would rise again. At the end of Isaiah 53, there's this little phrase where it says you know, god would see his suffering and he would prolong his days, and the word prolong there is in the Hebrew, it's in the imperfect tense, which means he would give him days without end after he's suffered, like his days will never come to a completion, he'll just keep living and living, and living. So the Old Testament prophesies about a Christ that has to suffer to be the substitutionary atonor, the Lamb of God, for the sin of the world. Right the ultimate Leviticus, 16 and 17 sacrifice. And then he's got to defeat the consequence of sin, which is death, which is why he has to rise again from the dead. Paul will later say in 1 Corinthians 15, if Christ didn't rise, then we have most men are to be pitied as fools. Right. Our faith is in vain, he'd say.
Speaker 1:So then Paul continues and we actually have Paul's words and he says, after doing all this reasoning and proving, he says this Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ. So he's breaking down what the Messiah is going to do, as God has said throughout prophecy, throughout the Old Testament, what the Messiah is going to look like, accomplish. And then he connects the Messiah to Jesus. This Jesus of Nazareth is the one that is the Christ, the Messiah, the King. And so Paul breaks it all the way down then to saying this is the Messiah and you need to believe in him Verse 4,. And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women. And so we have Jews, greeks, women, all coming to Christ, based upon Paul's work in the Word, showing them God's Word coming true and that Jesus is the Christ.
Speaker 1:So Paul's taking his work seriously. He's dedicated to the Word, he's dedicated to proving these things. He's not just getting up and preaching, but he's opening God's Word, sitting down, spending time proving. That's an example of the whole purpose of what we're doing today, the reason why we disciple people and sit in coffee shops and invite them over for dinner and open God's Word and say I want to show you what God's Word says about Christ. That's what Paul's doing, that's the example he's giving us and that's what he's going to keep doing. We're just seeing one example. We're going to see another example of the same thing. What a cool thing that we see Paul doing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I see that in a discipleship example of how do we go to the Word, how do we proclaim that it's not us trying to convince people of our thoughts to be their thoughts. It's like, no, this is what the Word says. And if this is true of what the Word says, then it should be true of our lives, and very much so. Paul is pointing to that where he's like the Jesus that I'm explaining, like he is a Messiah because of the Word, not because I think so, not because that's what I believe, not that he's saying, it's the Word, is what the Word says. And so that's that's the example I see, and we're going to see that too later on in the chapter when he goes to the Bereans.
Speaker 1:And so, yeah, and I, and I really do think today we live in a very dangerous time when it comes to communicating, when it comes to talking, when it comes to proving, because, just like we're doing right now on a video posted on the internet, we get a lot of videos out there posted on the internet that proclaiming a Jesus or a gospel or whatever that may be. The problem that I see in a lot of those videos is the Bible's not open. It's just not open. They're trying to prove it the way they feel or the way they think it should be proven. You don't need to do that. Just open God's Word, just as we are doing here.
Speaker 1:Went to Genesis, Talked about where these are in Scripture. Read it yourself. Go to Isaiah 53. Go to Daniel 9. Read it yourself. Don't just allow some talking head on the internet to tell you Read it. That's why we're going through Acts. We're reading it word for word. So we have to be very careful, because I see so many people come up to me and say, oh, I heard a pastor say this Is this true? Well, what does the Bible say? Well, the Bible says this. Okay, so it's not true? Yeah, well, then that would be a false teacher Right. So that's how we can check our check. Truth is God's Word, so don't get away from the Word. Don't just listen to some random internet preacher. Open your Bibles and that's such caution that Paul gives us. He's using Scripture, so you use Scripture as well.
Speaker 3:And to point out that Paul doesn't just get his boldness and his confidence from some arbitrary example in his old life, like it's truly from. No, this is the Word. And so I think that, as believers, as wanting to be disciple makers and sharing the gospel because some people think how do I share? Where do I go? What do I do? It's like you don't have to go anywhere outside of what does Scripture actually say, and that's very much it. As I talk to college students as we go out and do evangelism and speak to people who don't know Christ, I'm not bringing up lofty, cool ideas that I've come up with. It's just this is what the Word says, and so I think Paul does a great example of that here for us. Where we may be wondering how do I disciple someone or how do I share the gospel? It's not really that tricky at the end of the day, it's what does Jesus say and sharing that with others. And if questions come up from that going back to, well, let's see what the Bible actually says about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, david. What do you see in youth ministry from an influence of just outside people that don't even live in our community, just what you're seeing students think about, say about things that they owe. The Bible says this when it really doesn't, or whatever that may be. What are you seeing in youth ministry?
Speaker 4:Some of the things I mean just the same things that you guys mentioned, where I think even the concept of the, of online personalities and people who are online influencer just that word influencer that they create content to influence people in a particular way, and the youth of today are being influenced by such a broad, immense content that really can't be controlled by any. I mean, we we're doing this podcast and we are sticking to the scripture. We as pastors, youth pastor, executive pastor whatever your title is, whatever- it is you know guy who sits here campus master the we're.
Speaker 4:I think that's why we provide youth with an with, with a place where we can fellowship in the word together, to not just to read the word together, but also to offer them the tools to answer those questions for themselves, to be able to filter the influence of culture, the influence of what we know to be ultimately Satan, the deceiver using using our culture and the world to influence us away from the Lord. Distractions, amusements we see all these things, but but I primarily focus on, especially in speaking with kids, that that are lost and that don't know the Lord, as I'm ministering to them, inviting them to youth group and inviting them to be a part to, to just share how important it is to balance what we hear and what we learn on the internet or wherever it may be, with what the, what the word says, just like you said, because we can follow. I think even in the last episode, chance said something about how important it is not to blindly follow leadership, not to blindly follow the mob or the group, that, just because this, this smacks of something I believe in and then you just follow it blindly until it's whatever conclusion it is that we need to be checking ourselves along the way. I mean the youth in our church have had opportunity to join Paula Payne and myself in the sidewalk ministry and one of the things that even within that that we value life. We know that God is the God of life and God desires that and we are called to defend the defenseless, you know. So we're going up to the.
Speaker 4:We've been going up periodically on Fridays to the Planned Parenthood to minister to people on the sidewalk women who are considering abortions, some who have had abortions and as we were driving up, paula said to a couple of the girls that sometimes it feels like we're fighting against ourselves and each other, that there's even disagreements within the pro-life movement on how we deal with legislation and how we vote and things like that. And it was interesting I actually was on the other side of the building but Paula, I came back to meet Paula and one of the other girls that that was with us and Paula said that she had a disagreement with a man who had a who's there all the time with a megaphone and they gotten a disagreement over incremental or abolitionist abolition as far as voting for legislature and changes in the law, and she got pretty heated and I'm really sorry that. I missed that because Paula Payne is my mother-in-law and I like seeing her get fired up. But there are even disagreements within what we believe in and how we act and what we do, and I think we measure that. And so Paula and I had a long conversation because Paula said well, where do you see in Scripture where it says that we shouldn't take smaller steps to get to a larger goal?
Speaker 4:Are we compromising? Are the integrity of God's call to protect life if we vote for smaller legislation, smaller laws that lead to our goal of abolishing abortion, or do we not take any smaller steps because that would be compromise? Like, do I vote for a law that says you can only abort up to this period? Am I, you know? Am I compromising my faith and what God's call me to do to do that? But anyways, even within those greater topics in our culture today, I think it's good for Christian youth to be able to and we went through the Scripture with them not to drag this out any longer, but to look for examples in Scripture where God has led people through incremental steps. Or was it no all or nothing morally for what's right or wrong? But I think to giving the kids of the tools to understand how to study Scripture and balance culture, because we can't protect them from that.
Speaker 2:One thing that makes this conversation really relevant right now and we talked about this in last week's podcast. Well, two episodes ago just the commercial the Super Bowl commercial that made all these claims about what Christianity is and who Jesus you know. Would he wash everybody's feet and that sort of thing. I was watching a I guess you could say that like a little clip from Charlie Kirk the other day regarding one of the videos that should have been placed. I'm struggling to find my words for this one, but basically it's like, rather than showing a bunch of pictures of Jesus washing anybody and everybody's feet, why not show pictures of people who have come to Jesus and had their life transformed? So, rather than saying Jesus gets us, it's rather Jesus gets us and he changes us.
Speaker 2:And there's a picture there of a former gang member. I was a gang member, but Jesus changed me. There's a picture there of you know, somebody who considered themselves transgender. I used to be transgender, but Jesus changed me. A former prostitute I used to be into prostitution, but Jesus changed me. A former abortioner, but Jesus changed me. A former drug addict, but Jesus changed me. That's what Jesus does. He doesn't wash your feet to approve of your life. If anything, he's calling you to repentance because he knows in and of himself he can change you. And that commercial alone despite the fact I'm fumbling over my words is a great example of why we have to reason from the scriptures. Just because something is on a Super Bowl ad, it doesn't make it legitimate.
Speaker 4:You know, it looks good and it feels good.
Speaker 1:Right? Yeah, I think one of the questions that we should discuss is this how do we make a difference? How do we actually go forth, do something with God's word, to go battle against what's happening? Because the reality is, paul was going to the synagogues to ensure that the Jewish people heard about the one and true Messiah, who's Jesus. I got to get to these people. This is the ministry to the Israelites. I got to get to them. I have to share the gospel with them and do this work. That's Paul's work, and then also we see Gentiles and other people coming to know Jesus through that work.
Speaker 1:Well, we've got a lot of battlegrounds in today's society that we, as Christians, need to enter into to ensure that truth is being taught. We talked about it a little bit last episode, about voting right and some of the ways to get involved. From a an American standpoint, what are our rights and what are our abilities? Free speech, all those sort of things where we can get involved and really be in that battleground. You know, one is this what we're doing right now entering the space in which people are now gaining their knowledge from.
Speaker 1:It isn't necessarily the synagogue, where the people are gathering to hear God's word. The internet, social media all of those things are now the battleground of information and knowledge and all of that sort of stuff. So how do we enter that other than the means in which we're doing right now, podcast videos? How could people just get in the game, get in the battlefield and start bringing truth and just start teaching God's word and and moving forward without being afraid or being scared of the consequences? What? What can we do, guys? What are things that you would encourage youth, college students, anybody, throughout, any generation today? What are things we can do.
Speaker 2:Guys. Let's start with chance. You're on the campuses. How are you engaging with the students?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think one of the big kind of overlooked steps and and things to first getting into my why, like, why are you doing it? What is your purpose? Is our purpose to go out and to argue and to be someone who's going to combat something aggressively for the purpose of argument's sake, or are we, as we pray about it, as we are led by the spirit, are we walking into a situation saying this is what God is calling me to do? And I think we see that very clearly in scripture as Jesus, when he does miracles, moved by compassion. We talked about last episode, paul, in this moment of the Philippian jailer, like why didn't he run? He saw that that man was facing something in that moment.
Speaker 3:And so that's my, my first as I, as I talk with college students, as I encourage other believers of going into ministry, doing ministry where you're at it's, do you see the why of what you're doing? Do you understand the lives of the people that you're trying to reach and do you recognize that there's a lost and broken world out there and if we don't say something, then it's just going to keep going down that path and then from there, that's where, once you get that compassion and start to recognize that this is what God's really called me to do, you start to take the little steps and start to say, okay, how am I going to do it? You know, how am I going to actually start meeting with kids? Does that look like taking some time to go and do that as well? As am I equipping myself to be someone that has those answers?
Speaker 3:Just like Paul in this, he would have never walked into the synagogue and done this had he not spent the years and the time training and growing and learning. So also with that it's it's not the sprint, it is the marathon. But that's not to say we shouldn't still train hard and still spend the time in the word to grow and become someone that is versed in apologetics, that is versed in the word, that does know how to do that. But I think it all starts with because you can have all the knowledge you want and and we see that in Paul's life had all the knowledge that all the things fall to law, persecute the church, and so you can be so adamant and so devoted to the wrong thing and run down the wrong path your whole life without having the heart of Christ and the compassion of Christ, and the truth is, like you talked about other podcasts or different groups of people that do that stuff, there's a lot of people out there that can be so right but yet so wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so staying on the college campus? Let's stay on there, and that for a minute, because the college campus, today university, is now the place in which children are becoming young adults, in which they are learning all sorts of trash, as I'm just going to call it A lot of. It's just German right, not true theory, yeah, critical theory, all of those different things that really get you nowhere in life. That's what they're being brought up in. So if you're discipling a Christian student and they're sitting in these classes learning this junk, what are you helping them in? As it comes to responding, because I think we've got a couple different type of Christians sitting in classes just doing the work to get by, maybe not really engaging in the argument. Which university is supposed to be where you engage in these arguments, these discussions? It doesn't need to be threatening.
Speaker 1:Paul didn't come in here guns blazing, like it seems, like he sat down with them. Let's have a discussion. Let's go through scripture. There seem to be an approach Paul had here. How can students come into the classroom in disagreement to their professors or the curriculum, like Paul's doing here, and do it well enough to where there's discussion. We're actually asking questions. We're debating back and forth in a way that doesn't. We're not trying to hurt people's minds. We're not trying to hurt people's feelings. We're not trying to go straight to I'm right, you're wrong. We're actually going to talk through it. How can a college student do that? How can they approach a professor or a class and do this?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So, two little things. Quick testimony on it is I struggled with that in college. I faced some very big moments of I know I should be saying something but I'm a little afraid I don't know if I should or not. And actually, as my buddy Ty that one day I was talking to him about this and he really opened my eyes to it's a melting pot of ideas like why can yours not be in there too, except for yours is based in the word, and so I think that was was like my first encouragement and kind of gateway into realizing if everyone wants to just believe whatever they want to believe, then why can't I share my idea? If they're going to come through, you know, the transgender arguments at me and they're going to throw critical race theory and all these things at me and think that I should just accept that, then why can't I share, like why can't I be a voice of reason in that? And so that's where then I started to really understand. Okay, so ideas are just that, their ideas, and if I believe the word of God is true, a word of God is true, and that's where I'm going to set my faith and my foundation, then why don't I bring that into the conversation and it started with the prayer for boldness. It started with the prayer for Lord, lead me in this conversation, please help me to bring your word and bring your truth. And time and time again I saw that get answered in my college classroom and there's also an aspect of like you're saying that the whole argument and do you just go in guns blazing ready to fire at anybody who opposes you know. At the same time we see how when there's a harsh sin or a harsh offense in scripture there's a harsh rebuke. And I want to encourage believers in that aspect of don't just see something and say, oh man, that's really tough what they're saying. Let me kind of try and just chip away at it. There is a time to stand up and say no, that's not true. And specifically I'll share a quick example.
Speaker 3:For me was in college. I had a professor who was encouraging the use of pornography in marriages for healing and in like young men's lies for the fact of finding joy. And I remember sitting in my college classroom full of probably 100 to 150 students and me coming out of a testimony of pornography and coming out of a background where he's struggling with that for years and watching the detrimental effects of that in my life, knowing that here's all these students taking this in, saying, oh, that guy's a professor, he must be smart, he knows what he's talking about. But then being armed with the word of the Lord and the testimony that God has done in my life, to say that's not true.
Speaker 3:So in that crossroads, that was one of the biggest moments for me in college of saying, do I stand up in this moment and say that's completely false, knowing that there's going to be people opposed to that in this room, or do I continue to let the enemy infiltrate the minds of my fellow peers at that moment?
Speaker 3:And so that's something where, in that moment, the hand was raised and I said that's just not okay, like there's no way that you can sit there and prove to me this, and and got to share my testimony, which was also nerve wracking in the midst of all those students. And and that's where, like people ask you have been through all the spirits like, yes, that was a moment where, like chances, flesh would not have done that. Like chances, flesh was not the person to sit there and do that. That's my encouragement to is recognizing where, if there's going to be a harsh idea. If there's going to be that that bold proclamation of this is absolutely the way it has to be and you guys all have to believe it, then don't be afraid to say no and don't be afraid to push back in that a little bit.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I want to encourage all those listening that when we talk about students on the university campus, we're not excluding anybody here will be who's listening. The fight is in the home discipling your children up to know the Lord. Young parents, you need to disciple your children in God's Word to be ready for university if they go there. And so, um, grandparents, you need to ensure if that the your kids are not training up your grandchildren. When you get the opportunity, you do that as well. In churches, we this is this needs to happen all around as Christians. This isn't just a battle on the university campus, but we can bring that battle by equipping young men and women to go to the church and then have these conversations. We need to do this on all fronts. That's why going to church is important. Being equipped in the word is important, because we need more young men and women in these places to have these conversations.
Speaker 3:So it's important that we do this all around with our families because of that, yeah, and to hit on that again too, with the equipping aspect of it is had I not spent time in the word, had I not spent time with the Lord, there would have been no equipping. Right, jesus has tempted and he doesn't say well, I think this and he could have, he's Jesus, but he says no, it is written, it is written, it is written. And so in those moments like the equipping and as I encourage students, I'm like hey, don't just take these good moral arguments and say, oh, I believe it because of you know so and so said this, or this good speaker said that. It's like no, what does the word say? And do you have the power of? It is written and and are you going to your arguments in your conversations, knowing the word of God and being able to bring that into the conversation? So that's not a little hearsay? I think this. I say that it's what is the word actually say about that?
Speaker 2:I think, while we intended to work through Paul, thessalonica and Berea, maybe as a natural good place to land the plane. But maybe just to add on one more thing concerning, I guess you could say, paul's tactic right, look at some of the words in here verse to he reasoned with them from the scriptures. Verse three he was explaining, giving evidence. Verse three at the end of it he was proclaiming. Verse four he was persuading them. Right, and so here's what we find in the university today.
Speaker 2:There is a number of people who say you know, truth doesn't exist. Well, if truth doesn't ultimately exist, if truth doesn't exist, then why continue to study the various academic disciplines? The first scientists were Christians who held the presupposition that there was a creator. They had a reason to go looking for things like organization because there was an organizer. So every academic discipline requires logic, and if you have logic, you have a logic giver. So all academic disciplines, like literally all pursuits of truth outside of objective truth, is completely worthless. You'll just continue to really circle the wagon with different theories, never arriving at what is true. And I think that's actually part of the problem with today's collegiate environment is nobody actually is pursuing truth, they're just pursuing new theories that debunk other theories.
Speaker 2:Make no mistake about it Christians absolutely believe that the truth of God's Word in the Bible is the truth for everywhere, for all time, for all cultures, past, present, future. Like what we believe applies to people on the Amazon who have never heard of it, what we believe applies to the person down the street who's never heard of it, we actually believe this is true truth to such an extent that everybody will be held accountable for this. We are not going into the university just simply saying no, here, consider what I believe as another option of various beliefs. We are saying there is a Savior who's going to judge the entire world one day and everyone will be held accountable to God's standard. This is not my opinion. As you said, thus saith the Lord and Paul is reasoning with them that Jesus is the Christ, that he is the way, the truth and the life, and that nobody comes to the Father but through him. So, in a very objective way, we are not saying consider this. We're saying this is life or death, this is eternity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want to encourage you. No matter where you are in the country, no matter what church you go to, the college campus is a great place to serve. You don't have to be a young guy like Chance to serve on the college campuses you can. We have a ministry that we do on a college campus here in Ottawa where families with children come and disciple and spend time with college students, open up their homes to come have meals, to get to know them, to go to their sporting events, to invest in their life, to show them. I'm not just here to give a quick word and leave. I'm here to have compassion for you, to be with you, to be in relationship with you, so you can be of any age to connect with college students. Don't let the lies of our culture say, oh, I'm not that generation, so I don't really know them. That's all things to keep you away from reaching more people. So go reach people, serve them, get the gospel out there, be in those conversations.
Speaker 1:College students are hungry for conversations like that because a lot of them just haven't had them. Some of their answers are like you've just never thought about this, you've never been exposed to the Bible, you've never even really thought about is there a God? You've never answered these questions. You've just kind of assumed because whoever's influencing you rejects those ideas. And so you're like, yeah, they must be dumb, because these people are the people I identify with, so I'm not going to believe it either, even though you've never logically gone through it, you've never used reason, you've never done any of these things, you've never tested it right. So I would encourage you get in the game. Body of Christ, sunday morning is great to come together, huddle to grow. Let's get in the game. Let's get in our community. As we say at Ottawa Bible live scent. That means you have to actively step forward in your faith through those open doors that God has for you in ministry in your community. So make sure you're doing that, dr Justin.
Speaker 2:Marchegiani, maybe some helpful resources for you if you're watching this specific episode. This kind of organically just became a conversation about apologetics, which is fine, we just followed the Spirit's lead. But there's a book by Greg Cokal titled Tactics and it's really like strategic ways that you can converse with other practically over some of the hot button issues of the day. There's another one that he just came up with, dr Justin Marchegiani, yeah, called Street Smarts.
Speaker 1:It's kind of Tactics 2.0. Goes through all. What's helpful with this book is that it's actually taking today's issues and applying tactics to those issues. So you're like how do I have conversations with people LGBT community, how do I have conversations with atheists? How do I have these ideologies that I've been hearing? Greg answers those questions and he does it in such a practical way and takes you through actual conversation. So check out those two books Tactics and Street Smarts by Greg Cokal and Greg will have you on here pretty soon. Dr Justin Marchegiani.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we have had him on here in the past. Dr Justin Marchegiani. Yeah, dr Justin Marchegiani.
Speaker 1:So that was a treat.
Speaker 2:There's another podcast called the Christian World View. Highly encourage you to listen to that. And there's a little website that I've used over the years. It's called calmorg I think it's Christian Apologetics Research Ministry. But calmorg has like article after article after article that you can read in short, summary form on how to give responses to you know some of the issues of the day. I mean, if you just simply type in Christian apologetics, there's a book by Norm Geisler literally titled Christian Apologetics and it is like the, the pristine book on apologetics for our day. So it's not hard to find these resources. Greg Cokal.
Speaker 1:Another great one. It's a curriculum we use for our kids ministry is answers and genesis. Answers and genesis also does academic journals, because because they're they're doing things from a Christian perspective, creationists they're looking at how God made the world and what's happened since he made the world. So go to answers and genesis. That has stuff for kids, it has stuff for adults. It's a great resource to learn about what God has done, how he has ordered things. It's a. It's a wonderful ministry. Greg Cokal, anybody else? Guys, you guys got resources, greg Cokal. The Bible's a great one, greg Cokal. The Bible's a good one, greg Cokal.
Speaker 2:The Bible is the final authority for life and God life. Greg Cokal, right, greg Cokal. And it's breathed out by God. Greg Cokal, right, greg Cokal.
Speaker 1:It is sufficient for the Christian life.
Speaker 3:Greg Cokal. Yeah, there's a conversation I often have with the college students of hey, are you spending more time in the word than you are on TikTok and social media? And so, even as believers and Christians, no matter what age, I would say that's a huge encouragement to read the word. Read the word, make sure that we are coming back to getting fed from the word of God and and not just depending on the podcast and little things. Well, those are great resources as well, greg Cokal. We have the word in front of us. We get to touch it. Flip through the pages, greg Cokal Amen, greg Cokal, and take it in for ourselves. So I would encourage us all to do that, greg Cokal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, honestly, all of the resources we just shared are ornaments to the Bible. They're just helping you to understand the Bible even better. But the authoritative breathed out word of God is the scripture. That's why Paul argued from it and nothing else.
Speaker 1:So, greg Cokal, yeah, so thank you all for listening to the Be Disciples podcast. We know that we didn't spend too many time, too many verses here. I think we went through four verses.
Speaker 2:Greg Cokal. Next episode Greg Cokal.
Speaker 4:Sometimes, that happens.
Speaker 1:But I think we got. Whenever anybody says you know what the Bible, that's old news, that's not relevant. We just looked at what Paul did and said that's happening today, and we have our own areas in which we need to get in and do the same thing Paul's doing. So this doesn't change the Bible is always relevant and it is for all time, as Dakota has said. So make sure you're in it and you're out doing the work. Thank you again. Please share this podcast with whoever. They don't have to be your friend, you can send it to anybody, but make sure you share it, because that's the only way we're able to get the word out in this format. And so thank you again for being a faithful listener and we'll see you next week.